USAF Police Retirees Ready for LEOSA Concealed Carry Permits

11/1/2014

Defense Consulting Services, LLC is excited to announce we have been granted permission from the Air Force Security Forces Center (AFSFC) to begin accepting LEOSA credential applications for all 926B and 926C eligible Air Police, Security Police, Security Forces and Department of the Air Force Civilian Police beginning on 1 Nov 14. For those 926C applicants who are applying under Medical Separation exceptions, you may still experience some delays in the processing of your application as the AFSFC continues to work with AF Surgeon General on solutions for those of you who are unable to find or garner access to an approved DoD medical provider. If you have received the required medical approval letter, continue to process your application as normal. Ultimately our goal is to provide timely and efficient services to our customers and we have appreciated your patience as we worked through challenges during our beta test.

Bob

1/8/2015 01:45:43 am

Hello,

There is a long and convoluted process involved when trying to find a place to get your fingerprints scanned. During your sign up for whatever local company you choose, make sure you select "For Personal Use". Do not try to enter LEOSA or any other channel or you will never get it to work.

Cost is expensive as hell! Active is $145, retired is $165. They could not explain why there was a difference.

Fingerprint scanning/FBI printout is $50. There is a $30 charge if you miss your appointment. You will need two forms of photo ID, one of them must be governmental like a DL.

When you get home there should be an email from that company waiting for you with a PIN. Log back into the company web page and enter the PIN. They still then download to you a one page PDF file with your FBI criminal history report.

Print it out and mail it in with the completed application form to Defense Consulting Services.

Past that I cannot tell you yet as I am just getting ready to mail mine in now.

The LEOSA card is supposedly valid for four years I think, but I don't see a reason to renew it. The point of this card is to validate your job in the military was law enforcement with arrest powers, etc. Once done, that will never change so why there is an expiration date I don't know... other than perhaps to grab another $165 from you every few years.

Ostensibly, they claim it is to once again verify your criminal history. But, that is not their concern nor is it required by law. Just more knee jerk uninformed reaction from DoD. Civilian law enforcement gets their retired ID card and it never expires nor do they ever have to do a criminal history check.

Just my two and a half cents.
Good luck.

Donald Cole

2/18/2015 10:53:46 am

I'm shocked! I didn't even know that retired and active duty Security Forces were eligible for this. I'm kinda confused as why military cops don't carry "off duty", but would qualify to carry in this situation.

Bob

2/18/2015 08:37:05 pm

That's easy. Under federal law, military police are law enforcement officers. The original intent of hr218 was that all cops, retired and active, were to be able to carry. I know this because I spoke with one of the guys involved with crafting the bill and it's iterations. However, some agencies were a bit confused by this (including DoD) so they did a few re-writes over the years to be sure to include all cops. Now the law is a bit more clear in this respect.

As far as why we don't carry off duty, that's also easy. DoD doesn't trust us off duty. And to be honest, would you trust all the young kids, under 21, to carry? How many of our own cops get busted for under age drinking? And to add to that is the vicarious civil liability for 40,000 cops world wide running around off duty. I trust me with a gun on or off duty, but I don't trust everyone else. How many cops have you worked with you thought maybe should not have been armed on or off duty? I have worked with a few.

Donald Cole

2/18/2015 09:35:19 pm

Yes, I spent 9 years in the Security Police. There were many I would have liked to have seen moved to "non combat" positions. As a supervisor I was involved in several of those moves.

With that said, that's why I'm confused that they would be allowed to carry a firearm concealed, based on the fact they do not normally carry off-duty, anyway.

The way I understood the intent of the law was that police officers who had carried a gun for many years, and still must meet a yearly qualification course, could carry to protect themselves. This being that just because he didn't wear the badge anymore, didn't mean bad guys from the past would leave him alone. Our retired officers are required to qualify every year to show they are still competent with their firearm.

Also, it seemed the intent of the law further attempted to have trained, law enforcement officers, armed and ready to help others, if needed, across the country.

I guess bottom line is that civilian police officers carry their gun 24/7 (I do) and military police do not. So, it made sense, to me, that civilian officers would be allowed to continue to carry. This law makes it possible for someone who never carried off-duty to now be able to carry off duty. This would be based on a title - security forces - and not based on the experience and training of someone who has carried on and off duty for at least 10 years.

I will have to research this much better as I am a civilian police officer and if I encountered an off-duty military cop carrying, I would be faced with giving him a trip to jail or being wrong since it appears this law allows for it.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention as I'm sure everyone in my department will be surprised to hear it includes military cops.

Bob

2/18/2015 10:21:25 pm

Yes, I would defiantly avoid locking up a military cop (active or retired) just on the basis of carrying concealed.

If they have the right paperwork with him/her, and are not under the influence or committing another crime, then they are probably covered by LEOSA. It is best to err on the conservative side I think. You will have his name/ID should the prosecutor decide later to pursue charges, but I think that is highly unlikely since the courts have ruled in favor of the off duty or retired cops consistently over the years. There are many cases out there, even one with NYPD locking up a part time constable from Pennsylvania for carrying, and it got tossed because even a part time LEO is still covered by LEOSA.

No sense in trying to jam up a brother unnecessarily, especially if they have the right attitude. The point of having all these extra trained guns out there is also come to your aid if needed.

I do have a question, being retired myself. How would you prefer someone identify themselves to you to assist? Obviously if you are on the ground who cares who comes to help you. But if you are dealing with an unruly which looks like it might go bad, what would you prefer an off duty or retired do to identify himself?

Nobody wants an off duty or retired getting in their business when not needed. My thoughts are to just hang behind the actor where the cop can see me and silently somehow let him know I am there if needed. I carry my retired shield at all times and I figure that should be enough. But what about those that do not carry a shield? I am just curious.

Also, what kind/size agency do you work for. I am wondering if different sized agencies would react differently to someone hanging about and how they might prefer someone identify themselves as there to help if needed. For instance a small 10 person department vs NYPD or something along those lines.

I never want to appear intrusive or a nuisance to the guy doing his job, especially if they feel they have the situation under control.

Donald Cole

2/18/2015 11:38:52 pm

Believe me, Bob, it is NEVER about jamming up a brother, but it is always about upholding the law. If the brother did it wrong, then he has to be held accountable for what he did wrong.

I did find a very good link through the NRA on the subject. I had seen this link, before, but not since the military stuff was added. I personally just am not updated. My responsibility. But, that is what supervisors are for, so before hooking anybody up that is claiming something that sounds feasible, I'd get hold of the stripes to make sure.

O, the link is: http://le.nra.org/leosa/frequently-asked-questions.aspx. You may have to cut/paste it.

On your question I think everyone probably has their own opinion. First off, due to state laws in Texas and my Departments regulations, I would never call you into helping me. That is deputizing and I would be held accountable for you actions, not knowing what you would do. With that said, if you jumped in and helped, you would not be look badly upon. It has happened for many of us over the years.

Personally, if you (or me if I were in the situation) could keep enough distance so to not distract the officer from what he is doing and making him concerned with you presence, but be close enough to jump in, if needed, I guess that would be the best way. Obviously, if there were a chance to ID yourself, that would be great!

I was in a gun-to-bat stand off many years ago and a retired State Trooper stopped to help me. I didn't even know he was there even though he came to screetching halt and was getting his shotgun out from behind his seat. It may have actually helped the suspect to change his mind and drop the bat so I could take him into custody.

I still hold some reserve (my own opinion) that since we (retired civilian officers) have to go through a State Certified Qualification course every year to continue to carry what are the retired/active military doing? I know it would be the Air Force qualification, but not the state. I'm alittle confused on this aspect. I also find id funny that when I retire I will have to qualify every year, but Texas CHL holders do not. I taught CHL classes for about 3 years and believe me, some of those folks should be checked every 2 months, LOL.

Anyway, thanks for the updated information.

Ron

12/10/2015 01:31:34 pm

The Air Force under LEOSA requires retired police officers to take the annual weapons qualification for the state they live in by a qualified LEOSA instructor.

Bob

2/19/2015 03:19:34 am

It doesn't matter what agency you retire from or from what level jurisdiction. You always have to qualify in the state in which you reside, to that state's LEO certification standards. In Florida, we have CJSTC (Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission), which is essentially the same as POST.

I am as member of the Blue Knights, and as such one of the local sheriff's office gives us free qualification testing every year. They even throw in the ammo!

If you would like to holler at me direct, I am at g h o s t v e t at h o t m a I l dot c o m (obviously, remove all the spaces and stuff).

I am also somewhat active in PoliceOne.com.

Holler at me.

USAF Police Retirees Ready for LEOSA Concealed Carry Permits

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